Toukaidou Saikei - Special Interview with Shusay
Interviewers: Sameda and Nakamori
| Sameda: | First of all, for those of you who don't know well about Shusay, I 'll start with a brief introduction of him. Shusay Yamamoto is a comic artist who did the remake comic of Lupin the Third in 1997 with a scenario writer, Kasumi Takaguchi, on WEEKLY Manga Action. Web Site: http://www1.odn.ne.jp/~scale/ Shusay san, thank you for giving us your time for our interview today. |
| Shusay: | Not at all. I took it because, since the time I was drawing Lupin series was very short, I'd had only few chances to hear fan's reactions and opinions, and think it is the best chance. I once had a opportunity to have a drink with some Lupin fans met on the internet, and I spent a wonderful time that night listening to honest opinions of all. |
| Sameda: | Now let's start the interview. When and how did you know Lupin first? |
| Shusay: | It was right before I entered primary school.(about 6-7 yo) They broadcasted the first animation series from 7:30pm on my local TV station. |
| Sameda: | Did you watch every single series of Lupin the Third from TV animation series 1-3 to recent TV specials? And which is your favorite series? |
| Shusay: | I didn' t watch everything even I recorded them when they make new episodes. Especially recent TV specials are collecting dust in my video library. Simply put, I don't feel a strong desire for watching these episodes and so I left them untouched until now. But I reckon I watched all other series they made so far. The reason why I don't watch recent Lupin series is, I personally consider a cartoon/animation as a fine art and entertaiment as movies. I don't see animations as something only for children as general people do. So, I don't like recent trends made by anime directors which is shallow and hackneyed. |
| Sameda: | I heard that some poeple say old animations had highier aim for their creation like any other fine art. Today, animation became "anime" in Japanese which word connotes lowbrow. As I love the edgy mood of TV first series, recent TV specials seem just dull in senses. |
| Shusay: | I understand that their difficulty of labor shortage and limited budgets, however, I still do not like the "stop motion" scene effect that they use a lot. They show us the poor creativity of the anime creaters in backstage. However I see same people making their own animations much better sometimes. It looks like that they stop making the effort in Lupin the Third series relaying its big name value and fixed fans. It's a pitty. |
| Nakamori: | The word "Animation" originary means "to give a life". That's something lots of animaters forget about it. Without the soul, they are just a bunch of dead pictures. They used too many "old tricks" in their animations. We are already bored with all those. |
| Shusay: | From a different point of view, it can be said that animation developes new and own characteristics and expressions through its history. Still, they should not underestimate the fans and use cheap ticks over and over. So the series I like is the creaters have a high aim and challenge the live action movies, like TV first series and The castle of Cagliostro. Director Miyazaki knows a lot about (live action) movies, and ofcourse animations. I guess that's why his animations are such fun. And also, Fuma conspiracy by Yasuo Otsuka is my favorite, too. |
| Sameda: | I think that your Lupin looks much more like Monkey Punch original or TV first series. |
| Shusay: | Yes, I love the way Monkey Punch draw Lupin especially in the early days, and I wanted to draw something colse to it. I myself don't think that the mood is close enough or look alike, but if you think so, maybe it's made by the project team in Futabasya. I'll talk more later, but what they requested me was "A Manga which develope TV first series and add a modern taste." Then I took the offer. That time I knew that general image of Lupin the Third was the animation Lupin which was made by Yasuo Otsuka and Akira Osumi. In reality it was changing a little bit because of the entry of new Lupin in red jacket, so called TV 2nd series. So I tried to rebuild my image of Lupin the Third consulting Monkey Punch original comic, too. First, Lupin's image came out, then Jigen. Goemon and Fujiko was not easy, if I draw the guys closer to animation images, Fujiko stands out. On the other hand, if I draw Fujiko in animation image, then Lupin looks unrealistic. At last, it was a headache to decide the balance of each sub charactors in each episodes. Even I couldn't decide, I had to draw them because I had the deadline. That was the time I realized that Lupin is a extroardinary complex charactor himself. |
| Sameda: | Which is your favorite story or scene if you point out some specifics? |
| Shusay: | This is the question I feel myself as a "boy". What I mean is that I am specifically impressed their "behaviors" rather than stories. For instance, when they maintaining or playing with their guns, the angle they hold their cigarettes, the setch they place their arms on the steering wheel and talk each other, and so on.. Those are the same effects in action movies those days. As a child, I recieved a strong image of "adult man" by Lupin the Third series. I admire the images still. |
| Sameda: | When did you first read Monkey Punch original comic? |
| Shusay: | About the age of 8 or 9. Before the TV 2nd series started. It was the time when adults used Monkey Punch's pictures as decoration of their cars and stores. I was simply attracted by the style. |
| Sameda: | What was your first impression of originmal comic? |
| Shusay: | "Erotic!!" |
| Sameda: | Erotic! Yes, I see. (laugh) |
| Shusay: | I mean TV series impression was also erotic, but stylish images surpassed everything. Furthermore, the comic seemed more "black" and cynical than TV series. |
| Sameda: | Monkey Punch's style was influenced by "Mad Magazine" and had a distinguised smartness. I am surprised that you could had such an acute impression about it in that age. When I first read it, I was just kinda scared. (laugh) |
| Shusay: | "Scared".. I feel you. It was made for adult. That's what I feel, too. Now I know it's much more like wenstern calicatures than just a comic and easily understand the eroticism and blackness. |
| Sameda: | Now I'd like to hear what did you fell when they offered you the plan. And how did it happen? |
| Shusay: | First, in the spring, I heard that Futabasya holds an audition. I would love to take the chance, but at that time I already worked with Futabasha several times and I thought they don't want me because they didn't say a thing to me. Then in December, the same year, I got a call from the company and they said they wanted to see me in the middle of the night. So I went to see them, and I was introduced to some stuff, who will work with me later, Kasumi Takaguchi's husband. (He became the chief editor later year) They asked me to do the comic. They said they did the audition and looked for somebody for six month yet found anybody who fits the role. Then they called me up. At that time I wasn't told it has the script, they simply said, "Please do the Lupin." Later I was told the script writer (Kasumi Takaguchi) picked me. |
| Sameda: | Did you look at the Monkey Punch original over again before start working on your comic? |
| Shusay: | Yes, I did. The company told me that I don't have to consider too much about make it closer to Monkey Punch's style because he has a strong taste of his own. They said "Don't even think about it". However, when I got to the stage to recreate Fujiko's character, which was the hardest, I wanted to make her something like Monkey Punch drew, not as the images in those animes. So I brushed up all the comic by Monkey Puch again and again. The result came out... Well, you know? It's obvious. It was little hard for me at that time to combine Fujiko and Lupin together naturally. |
| Nakamori: | But I love the picture in your web site which you drew Fujiko again for hit counter memorial. It was just awsome. "..at that time", hmm, it sounds like now you think you can draw better pictures of them. Am I right? |
| Shusay: | Well, back then, with the most popular animation called "NEON GENESIS EVANGELION", there's a trend in Japanese animation which draw character's face much babyface/childlike. Under the influence of that I draw Fujiko a little bit younger in her face than she really is (or thought to be). It was a mistake because it made her look more "Ko-gal like" (*Japanese high school girls in trends) and it was not sexy at all which is her most important identity. Beside that, the girls I draw always said to be "lack of sexual appeal" by critics, so I struggle on it a lot. I'm glad I hear you say it's shivering sexy.(laugh) I have trust in you on that account. It might sound like an excuse, but it's also the reason that I couldn't find the "right" image of them from the script. Never. That picture in my web site, is something from my head considering Fujiko as a cool spy woman. The Fujiko in Takasumi's script was always cute, somehow. |
| Sameda: | Have you ever met Monkey Punch himself? |
| Shusay: | No, never. I know everyone is surprised. So even for me, he is still a man of the mystery. (laugh) I want to see him, though. I know some comic artists in his generation group and hear a lot of things about him. I highly valuate the proper stance he has toward us, young generations, which let us do anything that we like now about it. I think that's the secret which makes Lupin the Third series so big and famous so ling time. And I know what he is trying to say by his recent Lupin production "Dead or Alive". Yes, I want to see him once by my own eyes. I want to ask "Hey, is there something wrong if I see him?" (laugh) |
| Sameda: | Back to your comic again, how much did Ms. Takasumi (the script writer) incorporate your ideas and falavors? |
| Shusay: | I actually met her only one time, and from the conversation we had, she made the story called "#3 A requiem for insomniac gunman Part I, II, III" reflected much of my opinions. I asked her to pick up more scenes which shows each characters personality and images more vividly like, Jigen maintains his gun. Yeah, those "boys" stuff. |
| Sameda: | Yes, they say men seek for the details and women seek the emotional stuff. |
| Shusay: | I think it's absolutely right. Other than that(story), she writes the story and I just draw the picture, so it was her comic rather than mine. I did everything to make her world completed. I think there's still rooms for improvement, though. |
| Nakamori: | Is there any possibility you can make your own comic all by yourself again? |
| Shusay: | To tell the truth, there'd been some offers since. |
| Nakamori: | Really?! |
| Shusay: | But Masatsuki.Y started the new comic and he is doing well. And the company wants to unify the image on that for now. So if I want to start all over again now, I have to ask Monkey Punch straight and puclish independently, not through the (Futaba) company. |
| Nakamori: | What would you do in your own Lupin comic if it all came true? |
| Shusay: | I would make it much more for "Men". That would be my target ultimately. I does't nessessarily mean phyisically for "Men", though. (laugh) |
| Sameda: | Doesn't it?! I though it does.(Laugh) |
| Shusay: | What I mean by that was, I said this before when I had a drink with Lupin fans off line, I want Lupin to be the ultimate ideal for all the men especially. Lupin is a magnanimous. No matter the count he was betrayed by someone, traps set for him, he would just do what he do. That's him. I think it's the hardboiled even if it's unrealistic for most of the men in real world. He is broad-minded, flexible and neutral all the time. To be honest with you, I don't feel any of these from recent Lupin image. Clever and sly are different. Light-hearted and craziness is much more different. Today's Lupin's image is not an ideal for men or anything. |
| Sameda: | What do you think about Jigen? |
| Shusay: | I think his character is basically the same as Lupin's; Magnanimous and hard-boiled. Goemon, too, but he is a little bit shy and doesn't himself forward, that's the difference. That also represent his own way of life or a style as in Bushido (the code of the samurai). Jugen is the most friendly rival for Lupin. I think he also wishes see how Lupin live and die with his own eyes with pure curiocity. But the common mistake is, they are NOT just some friends. They always have some tensions between each other. They are independent from each other so that they are true professionals. |
| Sameda: | I agree with you. My next question is, what and how did that career affect you after all? |
| Shusay: | I could say it hit me with a basic rule about making a manga: "If you care too much about your technique, the character will die." Lupin is the character who shines more if he doesn't have strict regulations includes his sketch. And it reflects the person(anime/comic artists)'s mental and even health conditions directly into him. You have to catch up where they are (think as they think), or at least close enough, or otherwise you cannot handle them. I myself never be able to manage them. I always run behind them. As I am grown up as not only a cartoonist but as a person, I always think "I bet I can draw it much better now." And it's nothing but a great pleasure to meet the character/work which I can challenge forever. |
| Sameda: | Yes, it really is. I'm moved by that word. You really love Lupin like we do, aren't you? I think the passion and affection is necessary for especially someone doing recreation. I can not feel those from recent Lupin anime creators and what a pity... |
| Shusay: | Well, as I talked to them in person, they have affection and passion for Lupin themselves. What makes it difficult is the gap and variation of their own images of Lupin especially when they work together. Each of them have strong insists that Lupin should behave or be like, and it's always difficult to work compatiblly with a bunch of people who have such different opinions. |
| Sameda: | Hmmm, I see. |
| Shusay: | Even for me, working with one senario writer, it was not easy. Since Lupin series already had a big fame then, it was truly a hard job for me how I could not break majority's image of Lupin and create my Lupin in compatible. Almost Unimaginablly. But after all, I resigned it anyway, because I had a due. (Laugh) You know? It's unescapable reallity. If it's soon or later I had to compromise at some point. |
| Nakamori: | I understand. After you did Lupin comic, I guess your working image and reputation was taken over or restricted to that job only because it's a big job. |
| Shusay: | Right, it was. |
| Nakamori: | How did you feel about that? Did you have any dilemma by that reputation? |
| Shusay: | I didn't feel much irritations from fans, but if I say I had it, it was for the people who are in Japanese comic industry. "Shusay, you know, who covered Lupin comic ..." was my famous introduction phrase they used at that time. However, now it seems the reputation was gone and also there are lot of young editors who do not even know the fact I covered Lupin in the past. So it's a common mistake that people consider most recent Lupin comic series "Lupin Sansei Y" as my work, because the initial Y is same as mine and confusing. So now I cannot use my full name because of that. It's no pain but sure it is an influence of Lupin's job. Speaking of the comic industry, the book which we worked on was originally published for a purpose of the contribution of Lupin comic. Therefore, it was a supreme order to win the best popurality. And we made it. However, I didn't get a single word of compliment from the company. It was "a matter of course" that "Lupin achieve the best popurality", not me. Even critics ignored my series until Mr.Yamagami's Y series came out. I cannot imagine how much pressure he undertake now. But don't get me wrong, I was truly appliciate and enjoyed the job I did. Even years later, I still have an oppotunity for answering this kind of interview and so on.. you know? |
| Sameda: | Yeah, right. I can't believe this interview became true.(^^) |
| Nakamori: | Please tell us more about the pressures and struggle you had those times. |
| Shusay: | I could never be free from the truth I was doing someone else's comic. I wanted to put more of my taste but the company didn't allow me. They often said, "You are doing the job which millions want in this industry." What could it possiblly be something but a pressure? To be honest, I was fed up with their narrow mind sometimes. |
| Nakamori: | Do you still have any offer around Lupin? |
| Shusay: | Yes, I do. So far, Lupin is the most known comic in my career. I don't blame because that's part of my fault.(Laugh) |
| Sameda: | Let's go back to the question about the series itself. What do you think about Lupin the Third (series)? |
| Shusay: | It's a Japanese classic entertaiment comic work. |
| Sameda: | I see. What do you like best about Lupin? |
| Shusay: | The concept which was remarkable those days. It was an adult's comic. Every charactor were already mature themselves. Therefore, they have their own style and philosophy about life to show us. |
| Sameda: | Why do you think Lupin became popular even outside of Japan? |
| Shusay: | At the point Monkey Punch first made Lupin influenced by 007 and French Nouvelles Vagues, it might hold borderless characteristic naturally. Moreover, when they decided to create the animation series, they had a woderful plan to make Lupin not an ordinary anime for children rather for adults. And obviously, that did work. It was a biggest fortune for Lupin to meet with such creators. I think most of the creators these days, they don't know what to do with Lupin. I have impressions even from their advertisement and copies everytime they produce new story. They only put "Hey, this is Lupin the Third!! Check this out!!" and "Lupin the Third new story!!" in front. But I would, say "so what?" What's new about them? I cannot see any. I am not sure what Lupin wants to do. Now, he seems an insane. When did he become like this? It's a pity. |
| Sameda: | I agree with you. TV specials just seems like reprinting old Lupin pictures again and again. There's no challenge spirit anymore. Then this is our last question, what do you think about this festival overall? |
| Shusay: | I say it's great. I was grad that I first heard about this festival because it proves that Lupin is still loved by so many people. And a little anxious if I could join or not. (Laugh) |
| Sameda: | Why not?! We are grad to have you here. |
| Shusay: | Well, thanks. And I want to say something for everybody who participated this festival: As I see every fan art each by each, evebody puts humble comments on thier art works. However, all of them are great, you guys underestimated your talents. I was pretty impressed. I enjoyed lots of different participations of Lupin. I wish I knew this before I draw my Lupin... |
| Sameda: | What a nice thing to say at last!! Thank you very much! |
| Shusay: | Thank you. |
12/29/2002 to 01/19/2003 |
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